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15259 - High Number Winchester 22
11/28/2015
Mitch Lexington Va.

Maker: Winchester, Model: 06, Caliber: 22 S L Lr, Barrel Length: 20, Finish: Blue, SN: 852487

Question:
Why is this rifles serial # higher then all the sites say it should be? The rifle was bought new by my grandfather. Tks

Answer:
The information published currently by Winchester indicates that the Model 1906 ceased production in 1932 at serial number 727353, with a few additional rifles being put together from parts remaining at the factory (up to serial number 729305). Winchester freely admits that many of the records that they have are either incomplete or the original copies have been destroyed, so it is possible that what you have is in fact a parts gun from the clean up period, dating to roughly 1932 through 1936. It may be worth your time to have a professional who can physically examine your rifle take a look at it, as the known highest serial number for the Model 1906 is currently 847,997. -JW

15213 - Model 1881 Springfield 20 GA “Forager” Shotgun?
11/28/2015
George Haines AK

Maker: Springfield, Model: 1873, Caliber: 20 Ga, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Don`t Know, SN: 13789

Markings:
Standard model 1873 markings

Question:
I was told that this shotgun was issued as a `cook`s gun` to Ft. William H. Seward. Can you confirm, or tell me how I would confirm the history of this shotgun? Thank you, George Campbell

Answer:
George- I am not quite sure what you have. Springfield Armory did made 1,376 Model 1881 “Forager” shotguns circa 1881-1885 in 20 gauge with 26 inch barrels. These were made with mostly salvaged parts except for the newly made receiver and breechblock and extractors unique to this model. The receivers had the trough a bit wider than the .45-70 rifles, and did not have the hole in the bottom for the pyramid shaped ejector, and the breech block was sized accordingly and had the date “1881”instead of the usual 1873 [looks like 1878] or 1884. These were numbered from 1 through 1,376. The barrels were made from old .58 musket barrels, along with the stocks and furniture. The locks were typical trapdoor parts but some of the parts (especially the tumbler, sear and hammer) were those salvaged from early M1873 rifles later rebuilt into M1879 configuration.

The Model 1881 Foragers were “made for use by government hunters and scouts at western military outposts. They were issued at the rate of two per company. Last known issue was in 1906 in Alaska” according to Flayderman’s Guide. Therefore it is plausible your gun was used that way, if it is indeed one of the Foragers.

Surplus dealers sometimes made up 20 gauge shotguns similar to these from surplus .45-70 rifles or scrap parts, but those would have serial numbers higher than 1376, and have the ejector stud, and the breech blocks would not be marked 1881. These have little collector interest although they are something of an oddity that a really obsessive collector might add to get “one of everything.”

Since your serial number is 13789, that is well beyond the M1881 range, so it is probably one of the later commercial items. John Spangler

15271 - Mod 1934 Beretta
11/24/2015
Jason, Tallassee, AL

Maker: Pietro Beretta, Model: Gardone V.T-Cal 9 Corto, Caliber: 380 ACP, Barrel Length: 3'' Maybe 3 And A Quarter In., Finish: Blue, SN: E66725

Markings:
On the left side of the frame just above the trigger is what appears to be a star with a circle around it, there is a crest of some sort next to that and then there is another star surrounded by a circle. Next is the letters PSF, then the roman numerals XIX.

Question:
Acquired gun after my father died, and just wanted some history on firearm and maybe what it's worth.

Answer:
Jason, your pistol is Model 1934 and was made in 1941 by the Beretta factory probably for the Italian Army. The year XIX stands for the 19th year from the time Benito Mussolini started his reign (1922). Check the left side of the frame for the letter RE or RA. The first stands for the Italian Army the second for the Italian air force. Value will depend on condition and can be anywhere from about $100 to around $550. Marc

15212 - Colt .45 (M1911 Automatic?)
11/24/2015
Jeff, Sheboygan, Wisconsin, USA

Maker: Colt, Model: ?, Caliber: .45, Barrel Length: 4'', Finish: Blue, SN: 75600

Markings:
The holster was I am told, made for this gun. It has a ''F'' over the top of two upright crossed swords

Question:
When was this pistol made, and what does the holster marking mean?

Answer:
Jeff- From your description I am guessing this is the Model 1911 .45 automatic. Assuming there is no letter C with the serial number, this would have been a pistol made in 1914 at Springfield Armory. They made 11,285 pistols that year, from numbers 72,571 through 75,600, so you have the last one of that year. (But, in 1915 they started with number 75,601 and continued worked on up, so it is not that big a deal. You probably have a pistol that was rebuilt or had parts switched at some point so there is probably a Colt marked slide on a Springfield made frame. Perfectly acceptable for military use, but not appealing to picky collectors.

The marking you describe on the holster would indicate assignment to a cavalry unit (crossed swords). Normally there is a number above the crossed swords indicating the number of the regiment, and a letter below indicating the Company (usually called a “Troop” in cavalry units). So, this would indicate use by “F Troop.” This may or may not be a marking added by a previous owner with a sense of humor, as there was a TV show in 1966-67 called “F-Troop” which was “…a satirical American television sitcom about U.S. soldiers and American Indians in the Wild West during the 1860s” according to Wikipedia.

Hope that helps. John Spangler

15272 - Webley Royal Irish Constabulary (R.I.C.) Model
11/21/2015
Chip, San Francisco, ca

Maker: Webley, Model: R. I. C., Caliber: .450, Barrel Length: 4", Finish: Blue, SN: 94808

Markings:
bullet with wings WS. R.I.C. vol 45 cf

Question:
Any history on this gun ? can it be loaded with smokeless powder ?

Answer:
Chip, the Webley R.I.C. or Bulldog was a blued 5 shot, solid frame, revolver with fixed sights and a distinctive curved butt. These revolvers were available in 2&1/8 - 4&1/2 in. barrel lengths. The R.I.C. model was manufactured from 1867-1939 for Royal Irish Constabulary (R.I.C.) and was available in .320 - .476 calibers, of which, .455 Webley was the most common. The Bulldog was one of Webley's more successful designs, and it was copied and made in several different countries, both in rimfire and centerfire, some manufacturers even made special ammunition for it. Values for standard .450 caliber models are in the $100 to $300 range while values for the rarer .38 caliber models can go well over $1000. Sorry but due to liability concerns we decline to answer questions about reloading. Marc

15266 - German Training Rifle
11/21/2015
Todd Kelley

Maker: Walther, Model: Nitro, Caliber: 22cal, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 6304

Markings:
It has a couple of shapes, markings and then the word nitro after them. It also has some words in German but unable to see them good enough.

Question:
I old friend of mine gave me this gun and said his grandfather brought it back from world war 2. He also gave me the original signed certificate from the army signed and dated 24-May - 945 that gives him permission to bring the captured enemy weapon back to the states with him. Looks like the unit that gave him I guess the permission was 99th Inf. and HQ. 395Inf. APO 449 US Army. My friend said it was a German training rifle. It`s in really good shape too. Thanks, and please let me know what you can find out for me. Thanks again.

Answer:
Todd, our spotlight item for this month just happens to be a German .22 Caliber Military Training Rifle - Walther Sportmodell. Take a look at on our main page and you can see how this one compares to yours. Here is some information that we came up with for our rifles description:

As early as 1926-1930 several German makers were independently producing military style .22 training rifles. Circa 1931-1933 official Nazi party and German military efforts began for military style arms for use by military and paramilitary, party and youth groups. The result was the 1934 adoption of a Mauser design as the “Deutsche Sport Modell 34” or “DSM 34”designed by Mauser, but later made with some variations by 14 other makers.

In 1938 military desires for a .22 trainer even more closely duplicating the Kar98k resulted in development of the “Klein Kaliber Wehrsportgewehr,” or “KKW.” This was a joint effort between Mauser and Walther and these are another of commonly found military training rifles, so you can add some of those to your collection too.

Along with the officially sanctioned DSM 34 and KKW models, some of the makers continued production of their own designs, such as one from Karl Walther. All these various types are pointed out so you understand the full scope of the field, and how this rifle fits into it. Too often, all of these are just lumped together and erroneously called KKWs or DSM 34s or German training rifles. The best source of information is Jon Speed’s ``Mauser Smallbores, Sporting, Target & Training Rifles.``

15209 - Colt .44 Percussion Revolver?
11/21/2015
Shawn, Whiting, NJ

Maker: Colt, Model: 1860 Army ??? Or 1851 Navy, Caliber: 44 Cal Black Powder, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 204657

Markings:
Cylinder is engraved with tall ship-nautical, Patent No ''657'' is stamped on cylinder but type is off-set. Numbers ''57'' are different strike depth. Frame has protruding screws which would be for attaching shoulder stock. Barrel address is stamped …Colt New York US America. Butt is notched for shoulder stock. Does not bear the Sam Colt signature on the back strap.

Question:
I`m trying to determine which generation model this is and would it be worth contacting Colt to determine if a ''letter of authentication'' would be a nice things to have.

Answer:
Shawn- I am pretty sure that your .44 caliber revolver is a modern replica. The use of “.44 Black Powder” in your description is typical of the modern replicas which have been made in the U.S., Italy or Belgium in numbers far larger than the originals. Most have included the cylinder scene engraving (actually a roll stamped process, not engraved) and the Colt name on the barrel. The foreign made copies (mainly from Italy) usually include all sorts of foreign proof marks, and “made in Italy” and the Belgian guns had other non-original marks, and most of the foreign copies included the importer or retailer name as well as or instead of the Colt name. In fact, collecting replica black powder revolvers is a popular niche for some folks with a broad variety and usually modest prices. (You can gut a dozen gently used or new replicas for the price of one original Colt Army or Navy, and all are “antiques” with none of the FFL hassles.)

You should be able to Google “Colt percussion generation” or something similar to find the serial number ranges they used, and that should help narrow down if this is in fact made (or sold) by Colt, and the appropriate generation. As far as getting a Colt factory letter, that is up to you. For original guns, it may add to the value and interest if it was shipped somewhere interesting or had special factory features. For a common variation or replica perhaps not so much. Especially considering the prices they get for Colt factory letters. John Spangler

15265 - Nitro King
11/17/2015
Lance

Maker: Central Arms Co, Model: Nitro King No 812, Caliber: 12, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 5316

Question:
Can you tell me about this gun and what year it was made thanks in advance

Answer:
Lance, The `King Nitro` trade name was used on guns made by Crescent Firearms Company, c. 1900. for the Shapleigh Hardware Co. of St. Louis. Shapleigh has been in business since 1868 and are wholesalers only, not makers, they purchased firearms for resale from many sources. This shotgun is probably one of a huge number made in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and sold through various retail outlets. This type of firearm falls into the category of "old guns" that no one seems to be interested in as shooters, but collectors do not want them either. Generally these were basic inexpensive simple guns which sold at modest prices and still have little interest or value on market today. On the retail market they usually sell in the $25-125 range depending on condition and general appearance for use as a "wall hanger" over a fireplace. Where there is any family history, we encourage people to keep these old guns for sentimental value. Please be warned that most of these are not considered safe to shoot. Marc

15206 - Spencer Carbine Research
11/17/2015
Larry, Morrow, Ohio

Maker: Spencer, Model: 1860 Carbine, Caliber: .52Cal. / 56-56, Barrel Length: 22'' Round, Finish: Blue, SN: 40406

Markings:
Cartouche MMJ DAP on stock

Question:
Date of manufacture and where delivered. How will you contact me? I am new to this research. Thanks Larry

Answer:
Larry- We do not respond individually to people who submit questions here. This is a free service, and when we have some free time, we answer the questions and post them, usually several every week.

Why do we bother doing this at all? A couple of reasons, really. Responding to questions forces us to keep digging to learn more, which helps us do a better job on our descriptions, and be able to spot interesting items for our own collections and our customers. And, posting the Q&A’s regularly entices people to come back to our site where they will hopefully also look at the catalog pages and buy neat junque from us! Better informed customers will want to buy more stuff, so it is a mutually beneficial process.

The cartouches on the stock (MMJ and DAP) are only one of four possible types noted, so a truly obsessive-compulsive collector would be embarrassed to lack the others from their collection, so you should start looking for examples with cartouches TWR and DAP, or WW and DAP, or simply EAW. These were all used on the Model 1860 Spencer carbines which were .52 caliber, although the ammunition was designated .56-56 at the time since people had not yet agreed on a standard way of naming new fangled metallic cartridges. Actual deliveries began in 1863 and the Spencer proved to be so popular that the company was basically given an open ended contract for all they could produce. Actual point of delivery is uncertain as to if it was upon acceptance by Ordnance Department inspectors at the factory, or if it included shipment to the Ordnance Office in New York or elsewhere. The best I can figure out is that many Spencer carbines around 40.000 serial number range were in service with various units in late 1864, although there is no specific history for your number. John Spangler

15260 - Shiny Bodeo Revolver
11/14/2015
Russell Violet Hill Ar.

Maker: Bernadelli Gardone, Model: 1930, Caliber: 10mm, Barrel Length: 4.5, Finish: Don`t Know, SN: 5580

Markings:
All parts including I believe walnut grips have 372 stamped on them.

Question:
The gun is in mint shape. Have 2questions.#1.Is this gun stainless or nickel plated or was it refinished?#2.About how much is gun worth in mint shape? Holster little rough.

Answer:

Russell it sounds like you have an Italian Bodeo revolver. The Italian Army’s Model 1889 (Bodeo) revolver was a much improved variation of their Model 1874 Chamelot-Delvigne, based on work by Carlo Bodeo and the Glisenti factory. The M1889 features a hinged side plate for easy access to the guts for cleaning or repair, a rebounding hammer for better safety, and a loading gate (designed by Abadie) that locks the hammer when open. This is a six shot double action revolver chambered for the Italian 10.35mm (sometimes called the 10.40mm) service cartridge.

The Model 1889 was made in three variations:

Truppa or Trooper or Type A (with folding trigger)
Ufficiali or Official/Officer or Type B (with conventional fixed trigger and trigger guard)
Tipo Alleggerito a very late model which was smaller and lighter.

Because of a shortage of handguns during WWI, the Model 1889 was also produced in Spain by several makers, but the quality was reportedly very poor. The Model 1889 remained in service with Italian armed Force for more 60 years. It was used in various colonial wars, and in WW1 and WW2. During WW2, some of these were also used by the German army for second line users, under the designation “Revolver 680 (I)”

Bernardelli was contracted in the late 1920s and early 1930s to supply Bodeo pattern revolvers for Italian Police and other Non-Military use.

Your revolver is undoubtedly not stainless steel, it probably is nickel or chrome plated. I have two of these revolvers in my personal collection that have a blue finish, but I am not an expert on them. I have never seen a nickel Bodeo and since this is a service revolver, I doubt that the original finish was shiny but I could be wrong. Marc

15205 - Revolving Rifle
11/14/2015
Bill

Maker: Unknown, Model: Unknown, Caliber: Unknown, Barrel Length: 27'' To Cylinder, Finish: Other, SN: NONE

Question:
Good morning. I have been trying to identify a rifle that belonged to my wife. I discovered it in the back of a closet after she died. Several years ago an antique dealer was at the house and saw it. He worked on the side for Nationwide Insurance. He was quite excited when he saw it leaning against a wall and told me he had only seen the rifle in pictures and wanted to know if I wanted to sell it. I didn`t. I know little about firearms but think that it was produced sometime around the time of the American Civil War. The bore has seven sides and I seem to remember seeing that this was an innovation in the period to increase accuracy of the projectile. The rifle also has a removable cylinder where the projectiles (six in all) would be loaded precluding the loading of shells as we know them today. I doubt the manufacturer is a well known one from the period since the only inscription I would find was D.T. Deel EV. Would you have a direction to point me in? Thank you.

Answer:
Bill- The most famous revolving rifles are those made by Colt, but several other makers also made some. The markings you provided to not seem to be any I recognize. Photos would be a big help, Contact us again and we will provide an email address to send some. Sound like a nice gun, and potentially valuable, but just how valuable depends on (a) what it is and (b) the condition. John Spangler

15264 - Secret Service Special
11/10/2015
Judy Union City In

Maker: Smith & Wesson, Model: Secret Service Special, Caliber: 38 Short, Barrel Length: 4.25 Inches, Finish: Nickel, SN: 19559

Markings:
Black plastic grips

Question:
What year was it made

Answer:
Judy - I am afraid that your revolver is not a Smith & Wesson, the Smith & Wesson markings only indicate the cartridge that the revolver is chambered for. Secret Service Special is a sales or trade name that was used by Chicago gun-dealer Fred Biffard circa 1890-1910 on revolvers made for them by Iver Johnson and the Meriden Firearms Company. There is not much collector interest in this type of gun and values are modest. I would expect to see one being offered for sale at a gunshow in the $50 to $75 range. Marc

15199 - RIA High Number M1903 Rifle With 1928 Barrel Date
11/10/2015
Justin, Wilmington, DE

Maker: Rock Island/Springfield, Model: 1903, Caliber: .30, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 429070

Markings:
Barrel is marked ''S.A'' with all the Springfield stamps and a date of 7-28 and the receiver is stamped Rock Island Armory and a serial number of 429070 and from our research shouldn't exist with that serial number.

Question:
Are you able to tell us what we have? according to the research we have been able to find the last R.I.A. 1903`s were produced in 1920 with and ending serial number of 345xxx. Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Justin

Answer:
Justin- I highly recommend the following site for info on M1903 rifles: http://www.vishooter.net/RIA.txt

Based on the info there, serial number 430278 was the highest number struck at Rock Island, on July 31, 1919. During most of WW1, most of Rock Island’s production was as spare parts, not complete rifles, and at the end of the war ( or in the year or so following) their rifle production ended and all remaining parts and incomplete work in progress was shipped off the Springfield Armory where it was used up in later years. Many of the Rock Island receivers with high numbers were later assembled circa 1928 with Springfield made barrels dated accordingly. In fact, about 25,600 M1903 receivers in various stages of completion were used by Springfield. A small number of those already had the Rock Island markings applied but no serial numbers, and were given numbers in the 1.29 million range being used by Springfield in 1928, and assembled into complete rifles.

There is no usage information on your specific rifle, but a lot of these post WW1 assembled M1903 rifles seem to have ended up with the U.S. Marine Corps, but many also went to other users. John Spangler

15263 - Universal M1 Carbine
11/7/2015
Thomas, Tyler TX

Maker: Universal, Hialeah , Fla, Model: M1 Carbine, Caliber: 30, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 44245

Markings:
It has a bayonet mount.

Question:
What`s the manufacture date?

Answer:
Thomas, Universal Sporting Goods, Inc., of Hialeah and Miami, manufactured a variety of M1 Carbine types and derivatives from the early 1960s until the company was purchased by lver Johnson in January 1983. The quality of Universal carbines for the most part was not bad, but was defiantly not up to the standards of U.S. government issue carbines. Initially the bulk of the components Universal used in their carbines were U.S. government surplus except for the forged receivers which were made by Repp Steel Company of Buffalo. Surplus slides and trigger housings were used as long as possible but toward the end of the Korean Conflict, when the surplus part market dried up, Universal started manufacturing all of their own parts including barrels, die cast trigger housings, recoil plates, recoil plate screw, and springs. There is very little if any collector demand for Universal M1 Carbines, the blue book lists values for most models between about $100 and about $350. Marc

15197 - Remington Number 4 .22 Rolling Block Rifle
11/7/2015
Dale Buchanan, N.D.

Maker: Remington, Model: #4 RB, Caliber: .22, Barrel Length: 21 3/4, Finish: Other, SN: J237406

Question:
I recently purchased this #4 rolling block, and would like to know when it was manufactured, and why everywhere I read, it should have a 22 1/2'' barrel, and this measures 21 3/4 end to end, and it is also stamped short or longs, does not mention long rifle. Any information on this rifle would be greatly appreciated. Thank You

Answer:
Dale- The Remington Model 4 Rolling Block rifle was designed by F.A. Houghton, J.O. Simpson, and O.H. Loomis and about 356,000 were made between 1890 and 1933. They were offered in .22 short, .22 long, .22 long rifle, .25 [Stevens] rimfire, and .32 short and .32 long rimfire calibers. The nominal barrel length is 22.5 inches as you noted, and I suspect your 21.75 inch barrel length is just the result of measuring the exposed portion of the barrel. The official measurement method is from the muzzle to the face of the closed breech which would include the portion of the barrel within the receiver ring, so it should measure the correct 22.5 inches if you measure that way.

I cannot help with date of manufacture, but the mention of .22 short and .22 long, but not long rifle suggests it may have been made before the .22 long rifle was the standard caliber. The evolution of the .22 caliber rimfire cartridge is a very interesting topic. I highly recommend a quick one page history at: http://www.frontiernet.net/~pinetreerifle/fireside/22rimfirehistory.html
Or, a more detailed history 9 pages long at:
http://www.csrra.com/results/2011-05-11%20A%20Short%20History%20%200f%20%2022%20Rimfire%20Ammo.pdf

But, these were serial numbered and 237406 would probably date it about half way through the production dates, long after .22 long rifle was popular. My theory would be that since some shooters think that any “freebore” distance between a bullet and the start of the rifling harms accuracy that Remington offered the Model 4 chambered in “.22 short or long” for those planning to use that ammunition, and in .22 long rifle for people who opted for the longer cartridge. I did find mention of another rifle in the 272,000 range with the same markings as yours, so it is not a unique matter. John Spangler

15258 - Russian Capture P.38 Markings
11/3/2015
Doug

Maker: Walther, Model: P.38 AC41, Caliber: 9MM, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: ?

Markings:
WWII German Markings

Question:
I do have a nice P-38, it's an ac41 with Russian capture marks, but all matching though grips and mag are not numbered. I know the Russians usually reworked these but the Waffenampt marks are still present. Do you know if the Russians would have removed the German proof marks if they reworked it?

Answer:
Doug, the answer is "no" for all that I've seen. The Waffenampts and Nazi proof eagle were left intact. The Russians usually placed an X mark somewhere on the slide. They also applied a hot dip blue without removing the original finish. If you search on the P38 Forum web site you will find an approach to removing the hot dip finish. The claim is if done carefully the original finish will still be present. Marc

15194 - Remington Army Mismatched Numbers
11/3/2015
Jerry B Nelson Brenham TX

Maker: Remington, Model: New Model Army 1863, Caliber: .44, Barrel Length: 8 Inches, Finish: Blue, SN: 21248 AND 19074

Markings:
Barrel marked on top flat ''patented September 17, 1858'' - top line Second line marked ''Remington and Sons, Illon New York USA - nothing special that I can tell.

Question:
I know that many Model 1863 Remingtons were refurbished or repaired by the factory during the War, but I`m surprised that the barrel has a lower serial number (19074) than the frame (21248. I would have thought it might have been the other way round. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jerry

Answer:
Jerry- The .44 caliber Remington revolvers were sturdy, reliable and widely used during the Civil War and well into the Indian War era. About 137,000 of the Remington Army revolver were purchased for military use, and also about 156,000 of the competing Colt 1860 Army revolvers. During the war, and afterwards these were kept in service, often by the simple expedient of cannibalizing parts from several inoperable or damaged guns to repair others. Thanks to the miracle of interchangeable parts, this was not hard to do, although it is a curse to collectors seeking totally unmolested examples. Frankly, the 19074 barrel number and 21248 frame number are close enough that they may have been switched during the period of service, not by later surplus peddlers turning scrap into money. As the saying goes, “parts is parts” and during military overhauls or repairs seldom is any effort made to match serial numbers or even makers when multiple makers produced the same model (e.g. M1 Carbines). John Spangler

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