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15685 - W. ALLPORT- LONDON, BLACK POWDER RIFLE
11/28/2017
James Kaufman, Spring Texas, United States

Maker: Do Not Know...Barrel Marked LONDON Long Ways, Model: Black Powder Rifle, Caliber: Large, Barrel Length: 25'' To 26'', Finish: Blue, SN: NOT MARKED

Markings:
The gun has been handed down in the family and was originally owned by W. Allport which is marked on the right side of the receiver. He was born in the 1880s and is a Harvard educated Psychiatrist. The only other markings on the gun in the LONDON long ways on the barrel

Question:
I want to know how to identify the gun. No other markings appear on the gun that I have found. It looks to be original and might have been his first gun as its shorter than I would expect.

Answer:
James- London gives us a starting point for research. The W. Allport on the right side is another clue and it was most unusual for owners’ names to be marked on guns, but very common for the makers to mark their names. William Allport was one of a series of Allports engaged in gun making in the United Kingdom circa 1770-1840. William worked circa 1813-1825 in Birmingham and is known to have made brass barrel naval pistols, but undoubtedly made a variety of arms for commercial sales as well. Thomas Allport worked in Birmingham 1809-1815; J. Allport worked in London circa 1770-1800 and Henry Allport worked in Cork, Ireland 1830-1840.

Of course, it might be the first owner’s name, but I doubt it.

Barrel markings “LONDON” on the barrel were usually found on fowling pieces (which we could call shotguns now) more than on rifles. A fowling piece barrel would normally have been around 32-40 inches long and pretty thin. My guess is that this gun was a conventional fowler that was cut down to 25-26 inches to make it for convenient for use in a wagon or on horseback. Or, even as a handy gun for use slaughtering hogs or other farm chores. Its value will mostly be sentimental. Hope that helps. John Spangler

15725 - Tracing Firearms Owners
11/28/2017
Gerard El Cajon Ca.

Maker: Smith And Wesson, Model: .32Safety Hammerless Second Model, Caliber: .32, Barrel Length: 4 Inch, Finish: Nickel, SN: 100216

Markings:
No special marking

Question:
I contacted Smith and Wesson and they gave me all the information on the gun, when it was made and what year it was ship. It was ship to Hibbard Spencer Barlett & Company. But I can not find any records on who it was sold to. So any help would be appreciated Gerard

Answer:
Gerard, when your S&W was new there were no laws requiring that sellers keep records of who firearms were sold to. I doubt that that the information that you are looking for is available or even exists. Marc

15723 - Shotgun Questions
11/25/2017
Alexander

Maker: Hollis & Sheath, Model: Warranted Fine Twist?, Caliber: 20 Ga, Barrel Length: 31.5, Finish: Blue, SN: N/A

Markings:
''Warranted Fine Twist'' on top of barrel

Question:
What is the production year and estimated value for good condition?

Answer:
Alexander, our main focus at FineOldGuns.com (OldGuns.net) is military firearms. We sometimes list sporting shotguns for sale in our catalogs but we do not have a lot of interest in collecting them and are by no means experts in this field; that is why we ask visitors not to post questions about shotguns. There are several dealers listed on our links page that specialize in shotguns who would be able to give you a better answer to your question. Marc

15683 - REALLY OLD GUN
11/25/2017
Dennis, Jerseyville, Illinois

Maker: Remington, Model: ?, Caliber: 0.5'' Across Lands, Barrel Length: 8'' Octagon, Finish: Blue, SN: 17996

Markings:
Top of barrel: PATENTED SEPT 14 1558 (it really looks like 1558, not 1856) E. REMINGTON [illegible] LION NEWYORK U.S.A. (nothing following) Left side of frame, near breech face- 6 bottom of barrel 17996

Question:
We are truing to determine anything we can about this gun, the model, year produced, anything. It is in a museum collection, and all the accession record says is ''really old gun''.

Answer:
Dennis- I can confirm you have “a really old gun.” The patent date is actually September 14, 1858 which was for Fordyce Beals’ used of a winged pin as the cylinder pin, retained in place by the rammer lever, allowing easy removal when the rammer was lowered. This was a key feature on most of the early Remington revolver models. Most of the Remington Civil War era Army and Navy revolvers had octagon barrels, many 8 inches long, some 7.5” and a few other lengths. There were none made in .50 caliber, but the Army models were .44 caliber, so perhaps your measurement is off slightly, or perhaps a previous owner reamed out the barrel to .50 caliber for some reason, but I don’t see how the latter would work without the cylinder chambers being bored out as well, but there is not really enough metal for that. The serial number on the barrel is probably repeated on the left side of the grip frame, but you have to remove the grips to see it.

If the number is 17996, and it is .44 caliber that would put it in the “New Model Army” serial number range which is about 15,000 to 137,000. Pistols in that serial number range were in the hands of troops in the spring of 1864, in time for some of the bloodiest fighting of the Civil War. Hope that helps. John Spangler

15681 - SCHMEISSER .22 (5.4mm) 1912 SEMI-AUTO RIFLE
11/21/2017
Steve Pawnee, Illinois USA

Maker: Schmeisser, Model: Model 1912, Caliber: .22 Or 5.4mm, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 193

Markings:
Some type of crest and crown with a B stamped under the crown. Also under the barrel has S S 193 under forearm stock.

Question:
I am looking for any information, I believe this is the only gun known of in the United States and only the second in the world. I know that one was sold in a rare gun auction in the UK. Just trying to locate information of price of the rifle due to its extreme rarity. Thanks Steve

Answer:
Steve- Sorry, I cannot find out anything at all on this gun based on the information provided. Perhaps someone who knows more about .22 rifles would recognize it, but nothing registers with me. What little I did find out was that this had some similarities to a Savage rifle of the same era, but nothing useful beyond that.

I see you are in Illinois, which makes any sort of gun activity difficult. However, if you are anywhere near or can get to Galesburg, about halfway between Peoria and Moline, you should take it into the folks at Collectors Firearms there. They are pretty sharp on German guns of all types and may be able to help. John Spangler

15724 - Parts Needed
11/21/2017
Bryan Ratliff for

Maker: Fabrique D Armes De Guerre De Grande Precision Pri, Model: ?, Caliber: 32, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Nickel, SN: 2087

Markings:
Engraved.

Question:
I am looking for a magazine for this gun

Answer:
Bryan, we do not have the parts that you need. Recommend you check with Gun Parts Corp (the old Numrich Arms people) at the following URL:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/

Gun Parts Corp has just about everything. If that doesn't work, try posting it on our free "Wanted" page at the following URL:

http://oldguns.net/submitwn.htm

Good luck, Marc

15719 - Gun Identification
11/18/2017
Richard

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: OT-53359

Question:
I got this rifle from my grandfather after he passed away, I believe its a Mauser or some type of knock off. Can you help me identify it?

Answer:
Richard, with only the serial number, I am afraid that I can not be of much assistance. Suggest that you take the rifle to the next gunshow in your area and ask some of the dealers, they should be able to help. Marc

15680 - Hawken Rifle?
11/18/2017
kenny maurepas la

Maker: Hawken, Model: ?, Caliber: 50, Barrel Length: 32, Finish: Blue, SN: NONE

Question:
this musket has no serial no. or manufacture name on it. it was made by hawkens between 1815 1858

Answer:
kenny- Hawken rifles are a collecting and research specialty that I do not get into. I do know that these were primarily for use by the emigrants heading west across the Great Plains and buffalo hunters. For these uses, and defense against possibly hostile Indians or outlaws large calibers were preferred, and barrels much shorter and handier for horsemen than the rifles carried by frontiersmen advancing from the east coast across the Appalachians to the Mississippi River Valley. Larger loads and use on horseback also resulted in much sturdier Hawken stocks than the slim and graceful “Kentucky” long rifles.

Most Hawkens were used hard, and nice examples are hard to find, especially ones made by Samuel and Jacob Hawken in St. Louis. As a result it is not unusual that their designs were copied by other makers, and sadly that scoundrels in recent years have engaged in fakery by adding spurious Hawken markings. Also, several replica Hawken rifles have been made for the shooter market and those sometimes acquire the look of age and have been passed off as originals. If yours have a nice blue finish, I suspect it is one of the replicas with modest value as a shooter. If an original, they tend to bring pretty good prices, perhaps in the many hundred to few thousand dollar range. Hope that helps. John Spangler

15713 - JC Higgins 22
11/14/2017
tom, Charleston, SC, USA,

Maker: JC Higgins, Model: Bolt Action Single Shot.....model # 10318, Caliber: 22, Barrel Length: App. 20¨, Finish: Blue, SN: NONE THAT I COULD FIND

Markings:
name and model number on top of barrel

Question:
I purchased this rifle for $30, and every gunsmith I have been to said they couldn't make a firing pin for it (it had a piece of spoon handle in it for the pin...don't know if it worked, as I preferred not to try it). I finally just took an old planer blade and the dremel and made one that works very nicely. How would I go about replacing this with the proper pin? Any info on the rifle would be nice...and why is there no serial number on it?

Answer:
tom, prior to the 1968 gun control laws, it was fairly common for inexpensive rifles and shotguns to not be serial numbered. I have a sneaky suspicion about why no gunsmith could make a firing pin for you. First, you have to remember that gunsmiths have to pay bills and feed their families just like everyone else does. Now calculate how much time it took you to fashion your firing pin from an old planer blade, I would guess at least two hous, probably longer. Now let's times that two hours labor by $50.00 (a ridiculously low hourly wage for a highly skilled craftsman). Viola! You now have a $100 firing pin without even figuring in the cost of materials, did you say that you paid $30 for the rifle? To find a replacement firing pin try checking the Gun Parts Links and Addresses section on our links page, Good Luck... Marc

15678 - JAMES BEATTIE HORSE PISTOL
11/14/2017
UK

Maker: James Beattie, Model: Horse Pistol, Caliber: 11 Gua, Barrel Length: 7 '', Finish: Other, SN: 2306 2293

Markings:
Damascus barrels, exposed hammers, not percussion

Question:
Hello I am trying to establish the value of several guns in my family`s collection and can`t find any info on this gun. Would very much appreciate any info you can give me on it`s approximate value. It is in good to very good shape. Thank you. Dave H Canada

Answer:
David- I am afraid we cannot be much help with this one. Values vary considerably in different countries due to differing laws and attitudes towards firearms ownership and licensing, and also varying collector interests. Also, it is impossible to submit photos via our Q&A submission form so we don’t have any way to see photos of the item(s) unless you contact us using one of the “contact” links on the page and get info on how to submit photos. (We got tired of all the spam we were getting when photos were allowed).

About all I can tell you is that James Beattie worked at 205 Regent Street in London from 1835 to 1865. He made fine quality boxlock percussion pocket pistols with folding triggers and percussion pepperboxes. He also made percussion naval pistols with swivel ramrods and belt hooks and I suspect that is what you have. In 1865 the company became J. Beattie & Son, which in 1879 became Beattie & Company. John Spangler

15710 - Black Widow Luger?
11/7/2017
Robert, Carol Stream, IL USA

Maker: Luger, Model: P08, Caliber: 9mm, Barrel Length: 4¨, Finish: Blue, SN: XX12

Markings:
barrel: small eagle on side, ditto top with 655, bottom has serial number XX12 & 8.82 Frame: stamped P08 left side, stylized r (?) under serial number, importers mark Receiver assy: 2 small eagles 655 underneath one larger eagle all front right, above chamber marked 41, toggle marked byf All parts marked 12 (last part of serial number ?) breechblock marked with small eagle Magazine: FXO eagle with 37 underneath (twice) P08 black plastic bottom

Question:
Coming from England have just realized a small dream and now own a Luger ! The gun is in 70% condition, may have been re-finished in the past but shows some wear to the bluing. Has black plastic grips with unbroken vertical grooves. Are the grips and/or magazine original ? Any information as to when made and possibly issued gratefully received. ! I suspect at $380 I've got no great deal, but this is the first one I found ! I think your site is splendid and provides much information and entertainment. Please keep encouraging people to join the NRA and their local organizations I can't stress enough that what has happened in England WILL happen here unless everyone stands up for their rights.

Answer:
Robert, I am glad to hear that you were able to purchase your first Luger, I am afraid that the first Luger that I ever purchased was in worse condition than the one that you are describing. When I bought my first Luger the condition didn't matter that much to me, I just wanted to have a Luger, I am afraid that I have been going down hill ever since. If you are going to collect Lugers I would advise you to purchase and read one of the Luger collector books. Datig's The Luger Pistol and Jones's Luger Variations are both good. As for the information that you requested, your magazine was manufactured by C. G. Haenel, Waffen- u. Fahrradfabrik, Suhl, FXO was their WWII Ordnance Code. The XX12 r stamping is your Lugers serial number (most WWII Lugers have a four digit serial number followed by a letter postfix), the 12's stamped on the various parts are numbers that match those parts to the rest of the pistol, 8.82 is the bore size in millimeters. Your Luger was manufactured in 1941 by Mauser, the 41 stamped on the chamber is the year that your Luger was manufactured and byf is the WW-II German ordnance code assigned to Mauser-Werke, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany. The eagles over 655 are military acceptance stamps 655 being the German WW-II Heerswaffenamt inspector's mark on arms produced at Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf am Neckar, Germany. I am not sure about black grips with vertical grooves. Some byf code Lugers came with black bakelite grips that had diamond checkering (much like ordinary walnut grips) and fxo magazines with a black bases. Mauser (byf) Lugers with black grips and black magazine bases are commonly called Black Widow Lugers... Marc

15677 - M1903 SPRINGFIELD FINISH ORIGINAL?
11/7/2017
Alex, Bountiful, UT

Maker: Springfield, Model: M1903, Caliber: .30-06, Barrel Length: 24'', Finish: Parkerized, SN: 1010709

Markings:
174 and 162 stamped on stock near the butt plate (one underneath, the other on the side of the stock). Barrel is dated 10 - 8, and is marked SA with the bomb symbol. The barrel date and serial numbers match, so they are likely originals.

Question:
The finish is a matte black -SC- is this correct for the original finish? Also, there is no Proof mark (P within a circle), or any inspector initials-- is it possible that the stock is original even though it lacks any cartouches besides the two numbers (174 and 162)? Thanks very much for your help.

Answer:
Alex- Your rifle was made about 1918-1919 and probably had a dark gray parkerized finish when new. A matte black finish does not sound original to me. The stock should have had an inspector’s cartouche and circle P when it was accepted for issue. The lack of those marks indicate the stock is not original. The 174/162 sound like rack numbers, but may be from a military unit, a movie prop rental outfit, the local Veterans honor guard or some other inexplicable source. None of these help the collector value, but it probably has value as a shooter since it is a “high number” with the improved heat treatment.

Since you live in Utah, you should take it to one of the Utah Gun Collectors Association gun shows at the Weber County Fairgrounds in Ogden (January, March or October every year). John Spangler

15666 - .45-70 TRAPDOOR CARBINE WITH 1863 LOCK
11/4/2017
Debbie Nix Wisconsin Rapids Wisconsin

Maker: US Springfield, Model: Trapdoor Carbine, Caliber: 45-70, Barrel Length: 20.5, Finish: Don`t Know, SN: 341366

Question:
My question is why does my carbine have 1863 on it and I can`t find it in the books but when I type in the serial number it says it was made in 1886. Also has a VP on the barrell.Butt plate US. On the head of the trigger guard has an A. Has a raised sight that you can move up and down or side to side. End of the barrel has a ring around the sight

Answer:
Debbie- It sounds like you have a .45-70 trapdoor carbine which should have a 22 inch barrel. If your measurement of 20.5” is taken on the outside of the barrel instead of from the face of the closed breech block to the muzzle that would make it about 22 inches. The serial number 341366 is in the midst of a run of documented carbines, so that checks out. The only anomaly seems to be the lockplate which is from a Civil War musket. However, the Model 1861-65 locks are identical to the later .45-70 trapdoor locks in the shape and used the same internal parts, so the locks physically are interchangeable. The Civil War lock plates are about 1/8” thicker than the trapdoor locks, so if a trapdoor hammer is installed on an earlier lock plate it will not be centered on the firing pin, but close enough that it would work.

My guess is that someone lost or broke the lock on your trapdoor carbine, and had access to one from a musket and used it instead. The Civil War locks were also used on the Model 1865 to 1870 trapdoors with only the hammer changed, and those would line up okay for use on a .45-70, but the hammer would have sort of flat and beveled contours instead of the rounded streamlined shape of the .45-70. The “ring” around the front sight is probably one of the hoods made for the carbine, secured to the sight by a screw running right to left and can be removed if you like. John Spangler

15711 - Wats It Worth?
11/4/2017
dan -u- town pa

Maker: ?, Model: NOT SURE, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 2189

Markings:
ships on chamber

Question:
wats it worth

Answer:
Dan, my crystal ball is not working today and you did not provide enough information for me to even guess an answer. Could be an old Colt, could be one of the many reproductions, could be something else. Marc

15709 - Luger Holster Compartments
11/1/2017
Ed

Maker: ?, Model: Luger, Caliber: 9 MM, Barrel Length: 4¨ (?), Finish: Blued, SN: ?

Question:
Lower case letters ¨byf¨ on top of carriage. Number 9994 on left side of barrel above side release lever, numbers 94 at various other locations. Number 41 at top of barrel where it meets the main housing. Eagle emblem and ¨655¨ on opposite side of from 9994. Leather holster stamped Carl Hepting & Co., STGT FEUERBACH 1939.

As you can tell, I know nothing about guns. Found your page doing a search on Lugers. Pardon me for stupid questions. I enjoyed the other Luger questions, though. First of all, what is the little compartment in the top of the holster for? (Not the one for the magazine, but a much smaller one, sort of triangle-shaped.)Secondly, is the gun worth much (should I ¨keep¨ it, or take it out plinking). Gun is mint except that an engraved name C.F.SMITH on the side of the body, which I'm sure lowers the value. The holster is very good to excellent, some scuff marks. I even have a magazine with ¨old bullets¨ (some have non-discernible markings but a clear 1942 stamped on the rim. It has been recommended to me that I not fire any old ammo. How do I dispose of it? Thanks!

Answer:
Ed, I don't think that your questions are stupid, I remember asking one of the same questions years ago when I acquired my first Luger holster. The small compartment in the top of your holster is meant to hold a magazine tool. Magazine tools are shaped somewhat like a small letter " t " with the ends of the horizontal bar rounded and the top of the vertical bar bent at a 90 degree angle, In the center of the cross there is a hole that is fitted over the magazine charging button to aid in depression of the magazine spring while charging the magazine. The long end of the vertical bar has a slotted screwdriver tip that is used to aid in removal of the firing pin. You can usually find original magazine tools at gun shows selling for around $125.00, repros sell for less. Unfortunately the name that is engraved on your Luger will drastically affect it's value. Values for Lugers like yours in "mint" condition are in the $2000 - $2500 range but the name will lower your value to $700 - $750, your holster is worth $125 - $150. You can dispose of your old ammo by sending it to me. Marc

15663 - ROLLING BLOCK CARBINE ID
11/1/2017
Tim, Douglas,Ma

Maker: Remington, Model: 1886 Rolling Block Carbine, Caliber: .43 Spanish ?, Barrel Length: 19'', Finish: Blue, SN: 32028

Markings:
SADDLE RING, CROWN IV AND 32 STAMPED ON BARREL

Question:
YEAR MADE, COUNTRY EXPORTED TO AND VALUE PLEASE

Answer:
Tim- Everyone is familiar with the Remington rolling block system but specifics get really vague because of the very large number of countries which used them, some made by Remington, and many others made under license (or sometimes without benefit of permission) in other countries. The U.S. Army and Navy used some, also the Papal Guards in the Vatican, the military of many countries in South American (e.g.- Argentina and Uruguay), also the countries of Honduras and Mexico in North America. Most Scandinavian countries along with Spain, Egypt, and even Japan used them, along with some of the colonial forces in Africa. Since yours has a 19 inch barrel and a saddle ring, it is obviously a carbine, not a rifle or cut down rifle, which narrows the possibilities somewhat. The caliber may be .43 Spanish, but there are also examples made in (or converted to) .43 Egyptian, .43 Mauser or 11mm Mannlicher.

The best reference on all of these is George Layman’s “The All New Collector's Guide to Remington Rolling Block Military Rifles of the World” but I cannot locate my copy right now to do any further research. The crowns sound Scandinavian or Spanish. Value will depend on condition and exactly who is was made by/for. John Spangler

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