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15689  - Remington 341-P Date Of Manufacture
9/19/2017
Bret Lambert

Maker: Remington, Model: 341-P, Caliber: 22, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 12465

Markings:
U over CE

Question:
Trying to find out date of manufacture.

Answer:
Bret, the Model 341 "Sportsmaster" was an updated version of the Model 34 which was a tube-fed, repeating version of the Model 33. The 341 was only in production for a short time, Remington manufactured 131,604 from 1936 to 1940.

Remingtons made between 1921 and 1972 have a code located usually on the left side of the barrel near the frame that identifies the year and month of manufacture. The following letters correspond to the months of the year, for example B=January, L= February and so on [ B - L - A - C - K - P - O - W - D - E - R - X ]. The following letters correspond to the year of manufacture starting in 1921 and ending in 1972. [ M - N - P - R - S - T - U - W - X - Y - Z - A - B - C - D - E - F - G - H - J - K - L - MM - NN - PP - RR - SS - TT - UU - WW - XX - YY - ZZ - A - B - C - D - E - F - G - H - J - K -L - M - N - P - R - S - T - U - W ]. Marc




15653  - Fox Sterlingworth Shotgun
9/19/2017
Matthew

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
Good afternoon, I recently inherited an A.H Fox Sterlingworth. Not much is know about the gun except it was my great grandfathers. I am looking for more information about it. The serial number is 112304. It says it was made in Philadelphia. The latest patent date says june 11-12. Do you have the resources or know where I can find out more. I appreciate all your assistance.

Answer:
Matthew- Sorry, we cannot help with that one. We just do not know much about shotguns. What little I know is that those are good guns, not the most fancy or expensive, but above average quality and durability. Google Fox Sterlingworth history and that should turn up some good info. John Spangler



15652  - M1917 Barrel Sight Key Slot
9/16/2017
Doug

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
I saw a picture of a 1917 Enfield barrel with dovetails on either end of the front sight grove. Is that a standard barrel or has it been modified? Thank you

Answer:
Doug- M1917 barrel front sight slots for the key are made different ways by different makers. The original makers used a plunge type milling process that just left the slot with rounded ends. I don;t recall how High Standard did theirs, but the Johnson Automatics barrels used a blade type cutter for the slot and then finished the ends with the perpendicular cuts, similar to the way M1903A3 key slots were cut.

Hope that helps. John Spangler




15686  - Celta 32
9/16/2017
Tim. Milton WI

Maker: Celta, Model: ?, Caliber: .32 ACP, Barrel Length: 3.5 '', Finish: Blue, SN: 20686

Markings:
Left rear slide has a shield with an x inside and a crown above it. Next to that is the letter B. Next to that is an animal with a tail rearing up on it`s hind legs. Also on left slide is Pistola Automatica with the name ''Celta'' in cursive. On the right rear slide it says made in Spain. Below ejection port above trigger is the serial #.

Question:
What is the date and location of manufacture?

Answer:
Tim, I was unable to find much information on Celta, one source indicates that Celta Tomas de Urizar of Barcelona Spain is another name for 'J. Cesar'. The pistol was an otherwise anonymous 7.65mm Elbar-type automatic, possibly made by Urizar in the early 1900s. It has been attributed to Manufacture d'Armes des Pyrenees.

You should be warned that some early Spanish semi auto pistols made use of low quality, steel which may not be strong enough to handle modern day high- pressure loads. My advise would be to retire this weapon and not fire it.

There is not much collectors interest in cheap Spanish pistols like this, I often see them offered at gunshows in the $100 range. Marc




15651  - M8 Bayonet Scabbard Murder Investigation
9/12/2017
Jacob

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
Hi there, I work at a law firm and we are currently representing a client in a murder case. At the scene of the crime, an M8 scabbard (no knife) was found, and we're looking to talk with someone with more extensive knowledge of military weaponry to help us understand the origins and details of the specific scabbard a little better. Through internet research, we've determined it to be World War II era, but we have a number of questions and would really appreciate someone being able to help. Please send me an email or call me at 765-426-9928 if anyone would like to talk further. Thanks so much

Answer:
Jacob- As you have learned, the M8 scabbards were first made during WW2, and continue in production today, and many millions have been made during that time. Older ones were repeatedly reissued, and many sold off as surplus or fell into departing soldiers' dufflebags and went home with them.

The M8 scabbard has been used with the M3 trench knife, M4 bayonet for the M1 carbine, the M5 and M5A1 bayonets for the M1 Garand rifle, the M6 bayonet for the M14 rifle and the M7 bayonet for the M16 rifle. In addition, private owners have found them to be cheap and convenient scabbards for all sorts of non-military blades.

It is totally impossible to trace a scabbard's history or possible multiple uses or users unless there are fingerprints or DNA evidence.

Hope that helps. John Spangler




15676  - Henri Pieper Rifle Info
9/9/2017
Angel Tacomo Wa USA

Maker: Loyal Arms Co., Model: 60080, Caliber: Rifle, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Other, SN: 60080

Markings:
Barrel has on the inside @ A PIEPER Bye then an X an 1 and a V then 307g with arrow pointing down

Question:
I cant fint any information on this gun. Can you help?

Answer:
Angel, it sounds like your rifle was manufactured by Pieper and marketed under the Loyal Arms Co. name. A quick Google search provided the following information on Henri Pieper at Answers.com:

"Henri Pieper was a Belgian gunmaker operating between the late 1860's and his death around 1898. By the time of his death he had grown his gunmaking firm to quite a large size. The company was reorganized after his death by his heirs (family). It went into receivership again and was refinanced around 1906 and continued until the firm was wound up in the early 1950's. The company names are variations using the family name Pieper and the guns most closely identified with the firm are pistols that are marked with the trade name Bayard, although they also made shotguns and rifles. I happen to own a very high grade Pieper shotgun made around 1903 with fantastic leaf & vine engraving, along with several others shotguns by Pieper."

Hope this helps, Marc



15650  - Dragon Gun From Arab Market In Egypt
9/9/2017


Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
I'm hoping you can help me. I have a replica dragon musket I purchased in the 80's at an Arab market in Egypt. I took it to the Antiques Roadshow in Green Bay recently and all I found out was that it definitely was never a real working flintlock because there was no hole in the pan. It's beautiful but I desperately want to know more about it. If you would be interested in seeing a picture and helping me, please e-mail me. Thanks much!

Answer:
Sir- Sorry, we cannot help with that one. I am sure we cannot add anything to what the Antiques Roadshow people could tell you. I know a couple of the gentlemen who have done their firearms items and every one of them is top notch across a broad spectrum of firearms, and ethical in their dealings. (Well except for one con man who was kicked off the show some years ago and his episodes purged from their archives.)

Don't feel alone, however, as the folks around the edges of the Mediterranean have been making guns to sell to gullible tourists for at least a hundred years. They are nice souvenirs, often quite decorative, but seldom actual working firearms or very old. Generally the purchase prices were modest, and the values are seldom more than what was paid for them, except maybe sentimental value. Today we see the traders in the markets in Afghanistan peddling all sorts of souvenir "antique" guns to our service members there, and many or most of those are fakes cobbled together in the Khyber Pass workshops. Hope that helps. John Spangler




15675  - Ortgies Value
9/5/2017
Gary, Lebanon, Indiana

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: 7.65. 32 Cal, Barrel Length: 4 In, Finish: Blue, SN: 44637

Markings:
Left side of slide has..Ortgies`Patent. Deutsche Werke Aktiengesellschaft,Werk Erfurt. Back of butt looks like a M, then looks like a square leaf or badge same size as the M. Then 24... So looks like ..M#24. Then on right side slide right behind trigger has a matching mark, one on body, and one on slide. They are lined up ,one on top of the other. Looks like a crown on top of a N. It also has wood grips with a gold badge in middle, looks like a O on top of a H it also has B K underneath the wood grips. And the serial # is at the front of trigger guard on bottom side. Has a squeeze handle safety. and the release is on left side towards the back.

Question:
My father recently died, leaving me the firearm. I'm trying to figure out what it is and its value. Any help would b appreciated, thanks!

Answer:
Gary, I can tell you a little about Ortgies. The founder of Ortgies (Heinrich Ortgies) was a German but he lived in Liege for many years, and may have been connected with the firearms business there. During his residence in Belgium, Ortgies designed an automatic pistol incorporating certain ingenious details which he patented in about 1916. After WWI, Ortgies returned to Germany and set up in business in Erfurt manufacturing the Ortgies pistol. Ortgies manufactured upwards of 10,000 pistols and they proved to be such a great success that Deutsche Werke of Erfurt made him an attractive offer to buy his business which he accepted. In 1921 Deutsche Werke took over the Ortgies patents, tools and stock, and began making Ortgies pistols. Original Orgies made pistols are marked on the slide 'Ortgies & Co Erfurt Ortgies Patent', the grips came with a bronze medallion with the intertwined initials 'HO', these grip medallions were retained by Deutsche Werke for some years, and they also retained the wording 'Ortgies Patent'. Later production dropped both these features. Unfortunately there is not much collector interest in Ortgies pistols I often see them offered for sale at gunshows in the $125.00 - $250 range. Marc



15649  - Jezail Value
9/5/2017
Randy

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
I have a rifle with a lock from a Brown Bess Musket and has the word tower on it. It looks like it came from a rifle or smooth bore of the late 1600 or early 1700's. The wood is not from a Brown Bess but could be from the original sporter rifle that matches the barrel. The stain is red which was used from late 1600's to the 1800.s. Inlays are similar to middle eastern firearms. The leather sling has been replaced in the 20th century. I was told the fireman could be from 200 to 240 years old and the barrel is even older. I think it is called a Jezail. I was told my relative paid $10,000 for the rife which is in a glass case. Did he pay too much. Thanks for your help. Randy.

Answer:
Randy- Thanks for contacting Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters.

First, a disclaimer- I have not seen this gun and can only go by your description, so it may be something far different from what I envision so my comments may be entirely wrong. But, I think there is a 90% chance I am pretty close!

Jezail is the polite word for what most people call "camel guns" which is applied to a broad variety of long guns usually with funny shaped stocks and lots of fancy bone or metal inlays, made in the Arab world extending from North Africa eastward across the Middle East and into Iran, Afghanistan and India and northward into Turkey and the Caucuses. Since much of this was once colonized by the British, or the Brits traded there, many of the millions of Brown Bess muskets eventually ended up there as a source of parts for reuse into locally made arms or as patterns for newly made arms.

While many of the firearms were indeed functional firearms used in the intramural and external wars of the region for the last 200 years or so, a surprisingly high percentage were remade, or made from new parts and artificially aged to supply the "tourist trade" for the last 100 years, and such items are being sold today in the bazaars of Afghanistan.

Very few people collect these, and they are valued mainly for decorative use or as souvenirs of a trip somewhere.

As far as value, I see some selling in the few hundred dollar range, and others offered at much more optimistic price levels but seldom selling. I have no idea what would ever make one worth $10,000 and think you could get a quite nice original Brown Bess with great history and condition at that price level with people fighting over it.

In my opinion your relative paid way too much for any jezail. You may also check to see if he has a deed for the Brooklyn Bridge and some beachfront property in Arizona hidden away. Don't let him buy any more guns!

Hope that helps.

John Spangler




15631  - Gun For Sale By Another Dealer
9/2/2017
Will, Glean Allen VA

Maker: Starr, Model: 1858, Caliber: .36, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 2XX

Markings:
I am considering buying this gun and do not know the SN. This is the URL of the website showing the gun I am considering: http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/Home.aspx/Catdet/19467?nm=starr-double-action-navy-civil-war-revolver&category=handus&bread_last=%2FHome.aspx%2FCatpage%2Fhandus%3Fpsize%3D80%26page%3D0%26sortseq%3DName&category_desc=Handguns%20US%20Pre - 898#.WTNtXoWcFPZ

Question:
Hi Experts, Was the Starr Revolver (.36 and .44 Cal) used much in the Civil War? If so which one and are there marks on it that significant relative to the probability of being a military issue. Depending on your guidance, I may want to locate a good one. The gun I am considering, has no inspection marks that I know of and according to Flaydermans, the .36 Cal usually does not. However I read an article that indicates that if the ''B'' appears, it was a military gun. But, I think this is applicable to the Army .44. My goal is the buy the gun that: (1) is the model that was most likely to have been used in the CW. (2) is the most desirable/rare and (3) is in the best condition. I am new at this an need guidance. Thank you, Will

Answer:
Will- We do not normally comment on guns being offered by other dealers. Most dealers are honest, hard working and try their best to be accurate. A few are not as stellar and should be avoided. Different customers may have reactions to transactions with the same dealer, and while most customers are great a few are not. We do not want to get caught in the middle of an arbitration between buyer and seller, we have enough work to do trying to do the best we can for our own customers.

Just for the record, however, I have only heard good things about the guys at JJ Military Antiques.

You are asking the right sort of questions, and looking at things that some collectors never bother to think about. First, I will admit that I have only handled a few Starr revolvers in my entire life and had to research them each time. I always start with Flayderman and then for Civil War era arms check Robert Reilly’s “U.S. Military Small Arms 1816-1865” and maybe William Edwards’ “Civil War Guns.”

As Flayderman notes about the Starr Model 1863 Army revolver (in the Percussion Revolver chapter) “Next to Colts and Remingtons, this was the major model of revolving handguns bought by the U.S. government in the Civil War period.” But, you were asking about the Model 1858 Navy in .36 caliber, and only about 2,250 of those saw service. Thus the Navy model may be the scarcest of the military used Starrs, but how important to you is the rarity factor over condition compared to the Army models?

I strongly urge new collectors, or even long time collectors to go read all the introductory chapters in “Flayderman’s Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values” as well as the first few pages in the chapter dealing with their field of interest.

That will give you a lot of background and help answer your questions about usage, rarity and condition. All of this must then be viewed with an eye to how popular a collecting field is, relative scarcity (so now you have supply and demand to kick around) and then take a look at condition of similar guns being offered. Confederate or Indian used guns are usually NRA horrible condition, while modern Rugers and recent production guns can easily be found in new in the box condition. Then you can balance percentage of finish versus the thickness of your checkbook, and how badly the wife needs another pair of shoes. Will you buy a gun right now just to have an example, or hold out until one in pristine condition desires comes along and be prepared to pay top dollar for top condition?

But when working with any dealer, it is best to be an informed customer and do your homework before buying, and if unsure of something, find out what their return policy is. Every dealer makes mistakes (including us) but the difference is how they are willing to fix the problem.

Hope that helps. John Spangler




15674  - Remington 141
9/2/2017


Maker: Remington, Model: 141, Caliber: .30, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: 2346

Markings:
Has a brass- looks like the end of a bullet casing with 30 rem umc on it, on the reciever, on left side of barrel it has stamped ED and a symbol like an upside down u

Question:
What year was it made and how much is it worth

Answer:
Remington firearms that were manufactured between 1921 and 1972 have a two or three letter code on the left side of the barrel that identifies the month and year of manufacture. The first letter identifes the month and the other letter or letters identify the year. As the years passed, some of the code letters were reused so a marking may have one or more possible meanings. The "ED" marking on your barrel would indicate that your rifle's barrel was manufactured in October of 1935 or October of 1957. Since the Remington Model 141 was only manufactured between 1936 and 1950, your rifle was probably manufactured in 1936.

Values in the blue book for Remington Model 141 rifles range from around $150 to a little over $450 depending on condition. It has been my experience that slide action centerfire rifles do not have allot of collector or shooter demand so you may find that your rifle is difficult to sell.

BTW:
I have always thought that an upside-down "u" would be the letter "n". Marc