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16500 - Misc.
6/29/2021
Dieter

Maker: Several Items, Model: ?, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
A lot of boxes, they come from Lager Haiming in Austria, they were found near the train from the Mauser works in 1945. Inside there are lots of parts, unknown origin, some bear the inscription Ger.06H. Do you know something about these containers? And a luger-pistol, navy variation but with a 1900-mod.-toggle and a flat spring inside, complete with wooden stock and leather box and spare-mags number 13. On the back: COV KIAU, on the left side inscription: KaLeu Petersen Emden. I'm a collector from Germany and interested to hear what you say about these items. regards, dieter

Answer:
Dieter, I have spent some time looking for a reference to a Navy type Luger with a 1900 style cut back toggle and flat recoil spring and I have not been able to find anything. The 1904 Luger has a flat recoil spring, the toggles are not cut back like a 1900, but they are knurled only part way around. Could you have a model 1904? The Navy Model rear sight should be a 2 position sight adjustable to 100 and 200 meters mounted on the extreme rear of the rear toggle link, Model 1900 carbines have a tangent type rear sight mounted just in front of the barrel that is adjustable form 100 to 300 meters, could your Luger be a carbine? I have seen Lugers that are stamped with the original dealers name on the left side, could KaLeu Petersen Emden be a dealer name? I asked John Spangler what he thought about your box of parts, here is what he had to say... Marc ------- This is a great question and you undoubtedly have some good items there, Dieter. Regarding the boxes and other parts- I have learned that we gun collectors automatically think everything is related to some sort of gun, especially if found in gun related boxes. (I remember my joy at finding dozens of large sealed wooden ammunition boxes in an Army trash dump about 30 years ago. I just knew I could shoot for free forever...until I opened them and found them full of railroad spikes!) Gun related boxes could have been used to haul just about anything, including gun parts, parts of the machinery to make them, inspection gauges, something from a house or factory heating system, or maybe someting from a factory nearby. The "GER.06H" marking is not one that I can identify. It might be a weapon designation, an experimental caliber or ammunition designation, a date code, a lot (or batch) number designation, a transportation priority code, or just about anything. Your best source will be to find someone who can identify some of the parts. Sorry we don't have all the answers. Thanks for asking... John

16496 - Winchester Pellet Gun
6/26/2021
hcollins@ebicom.net

Maker: Winchester, Model: 922 ?, Caliber: 177, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Blue, SN: ?

Markings:
This is a 177 caliber pellet rifle that was bought around 1969. It has the Winchester name stamped in the barrel on top. It has a solid wood stock and a rifled barrel. This gun breaks down to cock and load.

Question:
I would be interested to know any details at all about this gun including value. I have talked with someone at Winchester some time back and that person could not find any record of Winchester ever even manufacturing such a rifle.

Answer:
Between 1969 and 1974, Winchester marketed eight different models of air rifles and two models of air pistols that were made by a German manufacturer. A total of 19,259 Winchester air rifles and pistols were imported. The values of Winchester air rifles and pistols vary in range from under $100.00 to over $450.00 depending on model and condition. The most valuable Winchester air rifle is the model 333 which is worth $455.00 in 100% condition. I can find no mention of a model 922... Marc

16499 - British Proofed Ithaca 1911A1
6/26/2021

Maker: Ithaca, Model: 1911A1, Caliber: 45, Barrel Length: 4, Finish: Park. ?, SN: 207XXXX

Markings:
British BNP Marks

Question:
I have an Ithaca M1911 A1 S/N 207XXXX with a number of BNP proof marks. I believe these are British military proofs. This is a WWII gun but the BNP proof wasn't used until 1954 according to the Blue Book section on proof marks. Thought it might be a WWII lend lease gun but not sure due to later British proof marks. Also, the S/N does not appear in the range shown in the Blue Book. Maybe you can shed some light on both matters. Thanks.

Answer:
Your Ithaca M1911A1 falls in the Ithaca range, according to Clawson's Colt .45 Service Pistols book. The section on pages 148-153 show that 39,592 M1911 and M1911A1 pistols were sent to the British Empire as lend lease material during WW2 (plus another 1,515 to Canada). England declared theirs surplus in 1952, and other parts of the Empire probably followed suit. Clawson shows pistols with English proofs circa 1952, 53 and 58. Other sources mention that Sam Cummings, of Interarmco, the largest surplus arms dealer in the world had a major storage operation in England. Per English law, everything shipped out of there had to be proofed. Thus your gun may have been lend lease direct to England, then proofed prior to return to U.S.. Or, it may have taken a longer journey and passed through England while part of a lot of surplus arms circa 1954 or more recently. My experience has been that most of the Lend Lease guns came back in near new condition (both .45s and the superb late 1941 M1 rifles sometimes found)... John Spangler.

16498 - Old Fowler Muzzle Loader
6/22/2021
boutros@ix.netcom.com

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: .75, Barrel Length: Aprox 36 Inches, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
My father gave me an old muzzle loader in very poor shape cracks, paint speckles, the only part in decent shape is the rod of the ramrod! He has no idea were it came from and would really like to know something about it. The barrel is close to three feet long and the bore is about .75 inches. The first eleven inches of the barrel is octagon but the rest is round. There is some engraving at the very beginning of the barrel, on the hammer (it's a percussion, not a flint lock), along a strip of metal on the right side of the grip, and along the trigger guard whose base plate runs about half the length of the but stock. There is checkering along the grip, about 14 lines per inch, with a double border. The only writing I can find is London stamped on the top of the octagon section of the barrel. Over all length is about 53 inches. It seems to me that this may be a tough one but any info would be great.

Answer:
Justin, while I can't be certain without seeing your gun, it certainly sounds like a "Fowler" probably made circa 1840-1870, which has had the barrel shortened at some point in its history. The London marking on the barrel usually indicates it was made in London, and the barrel would have two proof marks near the breech. However, some foreign makers of low grade guns applied English looking marks to fool unwary buyers. Normally these had barrels about 38-44 inches long, and were smooth-bored. (However, some were originally shorter, and some were longer). Typically the barrels were very thin construction, and intended mainly for shot, rather than round balls. Approximately .75 caliber is close to 12 gauge, popular as an all around gun at the time, which could be fired with balls at larger targets (deer, people, etc.) if necessary. Fowlers usually were "half stocked", often with a rib running up the bottom of the barrel and provisions for a "thimble" near the muzzle to hold the ramrod. Barrels were usually fastened to the stock with one or more "pins" or "wedges" instead of metal bands used on many military arms of the period. The trigger guard and butt plate are usually the same material (both brass, or both iron) but sometimes mixed parts were used. While some "fowlers" were very high quality guns, most were inexpensive, and intended for hard use by farmers or other non-wealthy people. Think of them as the equivalent of today's cheap single-shot shotguns. Again, without seeing your gun, and lacking further information, it is impossible to assess its value, but generally fowlers do not bring much on the collector's market. They are valued mainly as decorators, but if they have a history of family use, the sentimental value can be much more significant. One word of caution. A great many old muzzle loaders are found to be LOADED! Please use the ramrod and see that the barrel is clear to about 3/4 inch short of the distance from the muzzle to the back of the barrel. If it has an obstruction in the bottom inch and a half or greater, it may be loaded. (Or someone may have stuffed rags or sticks, or who knows what into the barrel at some time in the last 150 years.) If you think it is loaded, have someone familiar with muzzle loaders remove the load for you. To care for your gun, a little gun oil (or WD-40) will keep the metal parts from rusting, and a little linseed oil on the stock will preserve it. Please don't sand the stock or otherwise "clean things up" or you will destroy much of the value and the charm of it's appearance as an antique gun. I hope you enjoy it, and that it finds a home where it is appreciated... John

16495 - Webley No.1 Mark VI
6/22/2021
Daryl, Santee, Ca.

Maker: WEBLEY, Model: Mark VI, Caliber: 45, Barrel Length: 6¨?, Finish: Blue, SN: #162XXX

Markings:
R.A.F.2B stamped under cylinder DRC with upside down 5 stamped on trigger guard ENGLAND stamped on barrel right side patents 1915stamped on left side under cylinder an¨S¨ shaped stamped on bottom of grips

Question:
Looking for history on pistol and possibly who this piece was issued to. A friend inherited the gun, and I volunteered my computer along with your knowledge. Thanks

Answer:
Daryl, .455 caliber Webley revolvers were used by the British armed forces for 60 years. The Mark I Webley was adopted in November 1887, and the last of the Webley service revolvers (the No. 1 Mark VI) was declared obsolete in 1947. All Webley service revolvers were of a similar top-breaking design with a heavy stirrup type catch. All of the Webley service revolvers have a "birds head" type grip except for the Mark VI whose grip is square. The Mark VI (called No.1 Mark VI after 1927), was adopted in May 1915, and over 300,000 were manufactured by Webley & Scott at Birmingham during World War I. After World War I some Mark VI's were produced at Enfield Lock. The British decided that .455 was too heavy a cartridge for the most effective use after World War I, and decided to use a .38 caliber cartridge based on the .38 Smith & Wesson instead. Webley designed a new pistol using many of the features of their commercial Mark III caliber .38 revolver. The .38 caliber design was taken over by Royal Small Arms Factory and adopted in World War II. I also have a Mk VI Webley with RAF markings. John has told me that he is highly suspicious that the RAF markings on my Webley are not real. Maybe one of our readers will be able to shed some light on this matter... Marc

16491 - Model 1917 Trench Knife
6/19/2021
john@earthlink.net

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: N/A, Barrel Length: N/A, Finish: ?, SN: NONE

Question:
A friend of mine recently picked up what appears to be a WW I era trench-type knife (knuckle guard) labeled "1917" with a triangular blade. Have you ever heard of these?

Answer:
In the trench warfare of WW-I close combat often ensued, the US Army developed the ``trench knife`` to be used in close combat situations. The model 1917 trench knife had a sharply pointed triangular blade that could easily penetrate cloth and leather. The grips were made of wood and had four shallow finger grooves. The knuckle guard was a sheet iron stamping with a row of pyramid shaped spikes projecting along the outside edge. The spikes along the edge of the knuckle guard were to allow the weapon to be used as a ``knuckle duster``. In 1918 the pyramid shaped projections on the knuckle guard were changed to a triangular shape. In late 1918 the Mark 1 trench knife was introduced, with a flat stabbing blade and a bronze handle with four finger loupes and pointed projections on the outside. These trench knifes were used by both the Army and the Marine Corps... Marc

16493 - Hi Standard Model 10 Bullpup
6/19/2021
Eric

Maker: Hi Standard, Model: 10 Bullpup, Caliber: 12 ga, Barrel Length: Est. 18¨, Finish: Blue, SN: ?

Markings:
This was a special weapon used in Vietnam primarily for point or tunnel clearing it was incased in black nylon. It had a shot suppresser that through 00 buck in a flat fan, it had a place to attach a flash light ,swivel yoke butt piece, tube fed recoil operated auto loader.

Question:
I carried one of these weapons for awhile in Vietnam. Never seen one before or since. I would like to know more about genesis of the weapon and are there any to be had? Apologize for lack of specific information, memory fails me.

Answer:
Dear Eric, I would really like to get more details on your service in Vietnam related to use of this (or any other) shotgun to document the history of some of the little known arms, and the men who used them. (Unit, dates, locations, copies of any photos showing the arms, etc. Let me know if you can help and I will provide mailing address. Thanks!) In 1978 Thomas Swearengen (CWO, USMC, ret) published the definitive book of military and other fighting shotguns- ``The World`s Fighting Shotguns``. He has an extensive section on the development of the High Standard Model 10A ``Bullpup`` shotgun starting in 1965, and its successor the 10B which appeared in 1970. They had barrels a little over 18 inches long and overall length of about 27 inches, (thus long enough to avoid being classed as a ``sawed off shotgun``) with the same requirements to buy/sell as any other modern shotgun. The book makes no mention of quantity military purchases/use during Vietnam, however, that does not mean anyone should argue with you, when you say you carried one! He does mention on pp452-454 ``Duckbill Spreader`` attachments for the muzzle of shotguns to give a horizontal pattern, which were used to some extent by Navy SEALs and USMC Recon units. I have never heard of the spreaders being available for civilian purchase. High Standard was very picky about who they would sell the Model 10A/10B to, and sales were strictly limited to law enforcement users. However, in the last 25-30 years some have been sold as surplus by various agencies, so occasionally one is seen for sale, but at fairly high prices... John

16490 - Modern Colt Army, Navy, 1st & 2nd Dragoon
6/15/2021
Brian

Maker: Colt, Model: Army, Navy, 1st & 2nd Dragoon, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
Some years back Colt Industries came out with their black-powder series which included the Army, Navy, 1st & 2nd Dragoon. Is there any market for these re-issued models, especially if they have never been fired? Thank You.

Answer:
Brian I personally have never had much interest in Colt's modern black powder percussion revolvers, so I do not know how high the demand for them is. I think that the best thing to do is look on Gun Broker for the prices of similar items that have sold. Marc

16489 - Marlin 30-30
6/15/2021
Jake Crouse NC USA

Maker: Marlin, Model: 30-30, Caliber: 30-30, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: Long Gun - Don`t Know, SN: C347

Markings:
Capital C 347 square slide

Question:
I cant find any information on my Marlin 30-30 lever action serial number C347.

Answer:
Sorry, we cannot help with that one. Your best bet is to ask on the Marlin Collectors Association site. We just don't know a lot about Marlins. John

16487 - Looking For Spanish FR-8 (.308 Mauser 98) Parts
6/12/2021
wddavis@concentric.net

Maker: Spanish FR-8 (Mauser 98), Model: Carbine, Caliber: .308 NATO, Barrel Length: 18¨, Finish: Blue, SN: ?

Question:
I would like to obtain the sight adjustment tools for this rifle as well as the users manual. I would like to see if it is possible to mount a scope on this rifle as well.

Answer:
William, I do not have a source for the items that you are looking for. A good place to start your search would be The Gun Parts Corp., West Hurley N.Y. , Telephone (914) 679-2417, Fax (914) 679-5849. Century Arms is another place that I would inquire, Century has a web site and I have a link to it on my links page... Good luck, Marc

16486 -
6/12/2021
Craig Michigan

Maker: Winchester, Model: 1897, Caliber: 12 Gauge, Barrel Length: Not Sure, Finish: Shotgun (Military) - Don`t Know, SN: C117726

Markings:
Has C 117726 stamp on the underneath side of action area. I think this may be the serial number but I find no match in my search. Where do I find the serial number to determine manufacturer date

Question:
What is the manufacturer date and where do I find serial number

Answer:
Craig - You found the serial number. The ``C`` is not officially part of the number, but was used for internal factory purposes to identify changes in minor details to help identify which repair parts can be used, or possibly a change in type of steel so they could track later problems.

The serial number 117726 was applied in November 1900, so it was probably completed within a month or two of that date.

Hope that helps. John Spangler

16485 - WW-II K98k
6/8/2021
Ken

Maker: Mauser, Model: Mod. 98, Caliber: 8mm, Barrel Length: 24¨ ??, Finish: Blue, SN: 6744

Markings:
6744 is stamped on the two metal fitting toward the front of the rifle. (Sorry, I don`t know my rifle anatomy very well) It is also stamped twice on the base of the internal magazine. 306 is stamped twice on the bolt assembly. On the top of the barrel(or just before the barrel) is a byf (lower case)To the side of that same area is an slightly crooked 46306A (? on the A)Further down toward the bolt is engraved Mod. 98

Question:
Just wondering the relative age of the rifle, where it was made and possible value. I got it from a friend and just wanted to know more about it. I understand from my research so far that this rifle was produced for many, many years, in various countries. I was hoping you could narrow it down a little for me. There are some other marks that are difficult to describe. The rifle has an adjustable rear site that is numbered from 1 to 20 (2000 meters??) It also has some interesting devices on the stock. Anyway, anything you could tell me about this rifle would be wonderful. Thanks in advance.

Answer:
Ken it sounds like you have a WW-II K98k. The K98k over its lifetime has been manufactured at many factories. Total K98k production is estimated at 11,500,000. During WW-II most factories that manufactured the K98k were designated with codes to conceal their identities. The byf code that is on your K98k was assigned to Mauser-Werke, Oberndorf on the Neckar. In most cases the year of production of a K98k will be stamped on the receiver over the chamber. The year was usually stamped in full until 1941/42 at which time it was changed to the last two digits of the year. The value of your Mauser depends on many things, the most important of which being condition. Many K98k`s have been ``sporterized`` over the years. From your description of the numbers stamped on your barrel bands it sounds like there is a good chance that your Mauser is still in original condition, but if your Mauser has been ``sporterized``, I would value it at under $100.00. Most K98k`s have numbers stamped on their parts that should match the serial number or the last two or three digits of the serial number. On early K98k`s most of the parts were stamped with a number including the screws holding on the trigger guard and the butt plate. As the war progressed less of the parts were stamped with a number. From your description your numbers do not match and this lowers the value. Assuming that your Mauser it is in good, all original condition but with non-matching numbers, I would value it in the $600.00 price range... Marc

16484 - Remington .270 DOM Answer From John
6/8/2021
Michael Ocala Florida

Maker: Remington, Model: 700 BDL, Caliber: .270, Barrel Length: 22 Inches, Finish: Long Gun - Blue, SN: A6294494

Markings:
Nothing unusual

Question:
I purchased the above described firearm in mid to late 1970s. I sold the firearm in 1985 to a family friend. I recently bought the firearm back from the individual. My question is how old is this Remington and can the original purchase be traced back to me

Answer:
Michael- We really don`t know a whole lot about the Remington 700s. Nice rifles, and your choice of .270 is an excellent one.

Original date of manufacture is best determined by the date code stamped on the barrel. Here is a link to how to break the code. If you get stuck, don;t ask me, I have a hard time myself.

https://www.remingtonsociety.org/manufacture-dates/

Since you bought it in the 1970s or so, the Gun Control Act of 1968 required each gun to have a unique serial number, and for the manufacturer and dealers to keep a record of who they sold it to. That would include a dealer you bought it from in the 1970s when you filled out the BATF required background check form 4473, which the dealer is required to retain forever. Thus the gun can be traced from the maker to the retail buyer. If the dealer goes out of business the 4473 forms have to be sent to the BATF where they reportedly are scanning and indexing them. However, in most civilized states, individual sales of personal property do NOT have to go thru FFL dealers, and the ability to track owners ends with the retail sale. So, while your original purchase can be tracked, the subsequent sale to to your friend, and then back to you cannot be traced, without hauling people in and ``encouraging them to talk`` since there are no written records. The BATF is specifically prohibited from using background checks to set up a national gun registration system, so they can only do a trace on a specific gun from the maker through the chain to the retail sale, and they do this in some high profile crime cases. Usually to find it was not Mr. Criminal who bought the gun, but Mr. Good Guy who later had it stolen by unknown Mr. Criminal. Or, Mr. Good Guy sold it to a friend, who sold it to another friend, who traded it to someone else for a gun he liked better, and so on, before some dirt bag illegally got their hands on it.

When you hear anti-gun politicians talk about ``universal background checks`` theymight claim it will stop crooks from getting guns. But, they only prosecute a dozen or so cases every year where a felon, addict or abuser illegally tries to buy a gun and fails the background check. Example- the cocaine addicted son of a prominent Democrat politician lied on the form and bought a pistol- and no charges were ever filed. In reality, the push for ``universal background checks`` is ONLY to get every gun and its owner into a system which can be used for gun confiscation. They will deny it, but they are lying.

Hope that helps. John Spangler

16483 - Antique Rapier
6/5/2021
Rita

Maker: ?, Model: ?, Caliber: ?, Barrel Length: ?, Finish: ?, SN: ?

Question:
I am an avid sword collector and I purchased a rapier some time ago at an antique store. The clerk at the antique store claimed that the rapier had origins in WW one. On the blade up near the crossguard, a company logo is inscribed : The Pettibone Company. I would like to find out more about this company ( what happened to it, first of all; and then if it really was from WW one ), and if it still exists today, which I myself doubt.

Answer:
Rita, My reference material on swords is weak, but I was unable to find any information on Pettibone Company in Bazilone & McGuinn's "A Directory of American Military Goods Dealers and Makers 1785-1885." Nor did Gardner's "Small Arms Makers" have anything. Probably the best bet would be Bezdek's "American Swords and Sword Makers" It is 600 plus pages, but organized in such a way that I was unable to find anything in a brief search. You may have already checked this. If not, and you are an avid sword collector, I would strongly recommend you get a copy, which runs about $75. I know there was some U.S. military procurement of "fencing equipment" in the WWI period, which included both bayonet and sword equivalents. I know a lot about the bayonet fencing equipment, but nothing about the sword stuff, although they seem to have shared the same protective masks, gloves, etc. You might try a letter to "Man at Arms" Magazine P.O. Box 460, Providence, RI 02865 Good luck,... John Spangler

16482 - Remington .270 DOM
6/5/2021
Michael Ocala Florida

Maker: Remington, Model: 700 BDL, Caliber: .270, Barrel Length: 22 Inches, Finish: Long Gun - Blue, SN: A6294494

Markings:
Nothing unusual

Question:
I purchased the above described firearm in mid to late 1970s. I sold the firearm in 1985 to a family friend. I recently bought the firearm back from the individual. My question is how old is this Remington and can the original purchase be traced back to me

Answer:

Michael, if the rifle was purchased new in the late 1970's you probably had to fill out a 4473 form at the time of purchase. Law enforcement people should be able to trace records of that purchase.

As for finding the date of manufacture for your rifle, Remington made use of a two or three letter Firearms Identification Code that can be located on the left side of the barrel, just ahead of the frame. The first letter of the code identifies the month, the other letter(s) identify the year. We have posted a page with the Remington date codes at the following link:

http://oldguns.net/sn_php/remdates.htm

If our date code information is not sufficient to enable you to determine the date of manufacture for your rifle, you may need to contact Remington, they have a web site at https://www.remington.com/. The The Remington Society of America at https://www.remingtonsociety.org/ is another good resource. Hope this helps, Marc

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